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Anon culture in fandom

  • Jul. 18th, 2010 at 4:13 PM
crypto: Amy Pond (Default)
So I'm working on my next post for the Symposium blog and I'd like to write about anonymity in fandom. But I need your help!

I've been following the latest anon meme that sprung out of the ViVidCon debates (is there some kind of Fight Club thing where you're not supposed to link to it? or actually name it? I'm going to err on the side of caution here, but let me know if there are standard anon meme rules or norms I should be observing), and it's been pretty fascinating to see the different dynamics of how discussions play out there vs. on LJ/DW. I've checked out a few other anon memes in the past, but this is the longest I've ever followed one. Yet I haven't left any comments on the meme, so I can't claim to be a participant-observer -- there's something about posting anon that just weirds me out (personally, not when other people do it). I'm not sure what it is, but I definitely got weirded out the couple of times in the past that I posted on anon love memes where you tell people on the flist how awesome they are. Which, hey, people on my flist are awesome, and deserve to hear that! So I don't know what my mental block here is.

So I'd love to hear from any of you about the pleasures (and perils!) of posting anon, or participating in anon memes. I'm also thinking of saying something about kink memes, which are the other major place that I'm aware of that carve out a pro-anon space in fandom, and seem to be on the rise over the last couple of years. But I know even less about kink meme culture than anon memes! So any observations, insights, experiences you'd like to share about kink memes & anonymity would be welcome.

And I think I need a third thing, right? I figured I'd at least reference the WoW/Blizzard Real ID controversy, but it would be nice to have a third instance of anon culture in LJ/DW-based media fandom, if anyone has suggestions.

Anon posting for comments is on, naturally (ETA: and IP logging is off). Thanks in advance!

ETA 2: I've fallen way behind on responding to comments, but I'm reading them all & appreciate all the perspectives & experiences & context that everyone's offering.

ETA 3: The first part of my Symposium blog post on anon memes is now up.

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Comments

(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 19th, 2010 09:33 pm (UTC)
I think anon culture would have a much better rep if the communities enforced a 'no personal attacks' rule, but without that the legitimate discussion gets lost in all the viciousness and hate.

[profile] spnpermanon is SPN fandom's anon/hate meme, and it's members have spent a huge alot of time and effort trying to convince SPN fandom that it is not a hate meme. But it's creator, [profile] winterweathered, admitted not too long ago that she created it because she was attacking someone on another hate meme that got deleted, so she didn't have anywhere she could keep attacking people she hated without anyone knowing she was doing it. IOW, she specifically created it to be a hate meme, specifically because she wanted to attack people she didn't like without getting a reptuation because of it, and she and a lot of other people still use it exactly that way. There may be some interesting discussions there, but that doesn't remove the reason it exists or the all hate and lies that have been told about people there. Plus anyone who criticizes the comm while not cowering behind being anonymous becomes an avowed 'enemy,' has exaggerations and outright lies spread all over the community about them, and is harassed in their own journal and in the journals of their friends and in other communities. The fandom has never been great, but adding a permanent hate meme has it made so much worse, and I'm a nobody in the fandom so they don't even know who I am to attack me.

It reminds me of a video I saw with the creator of 4chan awhile ago. He spent 20 minutes talking about how wonderful 4chan is because people once used it to save a cat and to organize protests against scientology. However, when he was asked about the rampant child pornography and the site members who spent months or years harassing the parents of a child who had committed suicide, he just kept mumbling about how they'd saved a cat and fought scientology. He couldn't defend it, so he just pretended it doesn't exist. Anon culture in fandom keeps doing the same thing. Most of what they do can't be justified by anyone, so no one ever tries. They just find the discussions that are defensible and pretend the other stuff doesn't exist or that it is so rare it is not worth discussing, even though that is a huge part of what the communities exist for.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 21st, 2010 07:05 am (UTC)
I'm sensing some butthurt.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 21st, 2010 09:57 pm (UTC)
Believe it or not, it's possible to be disturbed by the lies and viciousness and bullying hate memes encourage even if you aren't personally a victim. Mind you, I think hate meme victims have a perfect right to criticize them and I think the idea that anyone who has been attacked or had lies spread about them on a hate meme has no right to be unhappy about it is a particularly stupid one, but trust me, there are plenty of people who have never been a victim, who don't even know anyone who has ever been a victim, of a hate meme who still find them disgusting.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 25th, 2010 06:12 pm (UTC)
I recall hearing of a study that established that women who witnessed a man harassing another woman, even if the witness was at no point the target, became more distrustful of men in general. I would not be surprised if there was a similar effect in other forms of class-based bullying.
dharma_slut: They call me Mister CottonTail (Default)
[personal profile] dharma_slut wrote:
Jul. 26th, 2010 05:45 pm (UTC)
not worth bothering to go anon for this;
I'm seeing in your post the same denial that the 4chan guy exhibited.

(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 21st, 2010 04:17 pm (UTC)
I think anon culture would have a much better rep if the communities enforced a 'no personal attacks' rule

I agree - I think the memes would both be more fun and higher signal-to-noise ratio if this rule existed - but I also wonder if allowing the personal attacks is actually necessary to keep enough people posting so that the good conversations can happen too.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 21st, 2010 10:05 pm (UTC)
You are probably right, but that doesn't say anything good about so-called 'anon' memes. If they would die if they stopped being hate memes, that just says that nothing else that happens is important to people who use them. If hate is the whole point, defending them on other grounds is just a smoke screen.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 23rd, 2010 05:45 am (UTC)
But it's creator, [profile] winterweathered, admitted not too long ago that she created it because she was attacking someone on another hate meme that got deleted, so she didn't have anywhere she could keep attacking people she hated without anyone knowing she was doing it.
Really? Do you have a link for that? Or even a link where winterweathered says she created it?
[identity profile] 13chapters.livejournal.com wrote:
Jul. 23rd, 2010 06:49 am (UTC)
This is a frankly completely inaccurate description of spnpermanon and the nonnies.

Anon culture in fandom keeps doing the same thing. Most of what they do can't be justified by anyone, so no one ever tries. This is fantastic, coming from someone posting anonymously. You just broke my iron-o-meter.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 25th, 2010 08:52 pm (UTC)
The best assessment I've seen yet.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 25th, 2010 10:24 pm (UTC)
I think the spnanonmeme had a negative impact on the SPN J2 Big Bang this year. More than one author has dropped from the challenge (some have stated that they didn't post their fic because they didn't want their story attacked in the anonmeme) I know for myself I will not be participating in the big bang challenge next year.

I guess it's one thing to know people are discussing a story via their LJ's and through email it's another to have a place where the only talk about a story appears negative.

There hasn't been any real discussion about any of the stories outside the anonmeme.
[personal profile] cam wrote:
Jul. 31st, 2010 03:37 pm (UTC)
I did NOT create that thing.

-winterweathered