Mysteries of the OT3

[crypto]

This isn't a rant or even an opinion either way, just curiosity:

Is it just me, or have OT3s gotten much more popular & prominent in media fandom over the last couple of years? I'm thinking especially of White Collar and Leverage, but my vague impression is that they've become more mainstream across the board.

The ones that I'm most used to seeing mentioned are mainly of the "Two Men & a Woman" variety (with Legend of the Seeker's Richard/Kahlan/Cara being the only major exception that springs to mind). So I'm inclined to wonder whether the rise of OT3s partly represents a move within slash fandom to explore alternative approaches to canonical female love interests. Is that too simplistic? Are there other explanations of the OT3 boom (assuming I'm not just imagining it)? Or am I just not seeing the major "Three Men" or "Three Woman" or "Two Women & a Man" variants that are out there?

Just wondering!

Comments

[torachan]

I think some of it's just perception, though. At least with Leverage, I thought from my flist that OT3 was one of the biggest relationships, but a couple people pulled up stats on the fandom and it's actually not popular at all.

That said, there are definitely fandoms where OT+ is one of the most popular relationships. It seems to be common in various music fandoms, and those tend to be all guys. So I don't think "it's just slashers trying to appear less misogynistic" is the explanation.

[crypto]

Thanks, I was wondering about music fandoms vs. media fandoms.

I wonder if OT3s are more commonly written for comment fic/kink memes, or just more often shipped than actually written.

[erda]

I wonder how much of it is because people are a little more self aware, and therefore no longer feel comfortable killing off, ignoring, or demonizing the female characters in order to pursue a slash pairing.

[crypto]

I've noticed from what I've seen of White Collar & Leverage fandoms, people really seem to like the female characters in the OT3s (Elizabeth and Parker, respectively), as opposed to other fandoms where people are a lot more ambivalent about the female characters (e.g., they may like them in theory, but they don't like how they're written/portrayed on the show). So part of it might be about perceived improvements in canon depictions of female characters, aside from any fandom trends or developments.

[cofax7]

My exposure to OT3s started in SG-1 fandom, where there was a long-running Battle Over Jack's Penis (tm Katie_m); OT3 seemed to be one way of solving the problem. Of course, we usually had to destroy the world (apocathreesome!) or strand them offplanet to make it work. Canonical OT3s are much harder to justify, I feel. (Which doesn't mean I won't read them.)

Of course, none of this addressed the sad failure of much of the fandom to include Teal'c in all the sexing, for which there is no excuse, especially since Teal'c canonically got more sex than any of the other characters over most of the show.

[crypto]

I like the idea of OT3s as a "can't fandom all get along, even if we need an apocalypse to bring us together" tactic. Except for the Teal'c part.

[damned_colonial]

For what it's worth, I've seen quite a lot of OT4 fic in SGA fandom.

[jesuswasbatman]

I also think that it's mostly an attempt by slash fans to have their m/m when they recognise the potential gender issues with ignoring/killing/bitchifying the canon female partner. Also I think that it's the new thing for self-conscious sexual libertarians and "transgressive is good" types now that same-sex attraction is a bit more openly included in canon ships.

And there have been actual cases of creators playing up three-way innuendo in canon, most notably with Nine, Rose and Jack in the first season of New Who, not to mention Simon, River and Kaylee in the final scene of the Firefly movie.

[crypto]

Those are all good points. That would also help explain why male-male-female seems to be the most prevalent OT3 pattern.

Your reference to canon examples makes me remember Baltar, Six & Deanna in Battlestar Galactica, though I don't think that was particularly popular in BSG fandom.

[lolaraincoat]

There's been an uptick in Fraser/Ray/Ray fics in due South fandom over the past few years, which is definitely a mmm threesome. I think some folks may be writing those stories as an effort to resolve the painful split in the fandom between OTPers of Fraser with Ray #1 and OTPers of Fraser with Ray #2. But it's so not my fandom so probably I have that wrong ...

[crypto]

Oh, I'd forgotten about due South (which I've never seen or read fic for) -- that sounds a bit like the SG-1 dynamic that cofax described above, except differently gendered.

[musesfool]

I know that Harry/Ron/Hermione was fairly popular in certain HP circles when I was active there. I've been out of the fandom a while now, though, so I don't know if people are still writing it. (there was also some James/Sirius/Remus and James/Lily/Sirius and James/Lily/Remus and James/Lily/Sirius/Remus, but those were mostly one time things and not posited as ongoing three- (or four)-way relationships.)

Oddly enough, Xander/Willow/Buffy never seemed to get much action that I could see, though it certainly makes sense if you like OT3s, nor Xander/Oz/Willow. Otoh, I think there was a certain amount of Buffy/Angel/Spike, and of course, canonical Angel/Spike/Dru/(Darla).

I was never in PotC fandom, so I don't know if it was actually popular, but there were a number of people on my flist who wrote Jack/Will/Elizabeth.

Currently, in addition to Leverage and White Collar, I've seen some Kirk/Spock/Uhura (which I don't read because I don't like Kirk/Spock), which I think *is* on some level about gender and race issues, and not disappearing Uhura in favor of the white male penis.

[crypto]

Thanks, I hadn't thought of HP or PotC. That's surprising about the lack of Xander/Willow/Buffy, because it does seem like an obvious OT3 candidate.

I think you're right about Kirk/Spock/Uhura -- at least, it feels as though there's often a certain consciousness or intentionality motivating it, or at least an awareness of broader cultural dynamics.

[torachan]

Yes, Buffy/Angel/Spike is still pretty popular from what I understand, and not just with slashers. I have a friend who's really into Buffy fandom and she ships both Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike and also likes OT3 as a compromise between her two het ships.

[vehemently]

I feel old. My examples of OT3-dom are from years ago, in which they were both m/m/m and m/m/f. (Never m/f/f of f/f/f, because there was never another woman on the planet besides Scully.) It wasn't that big a genre, compared to the het and slash OTP KGBs then in effect, but it existed.

[livrelibre]

As an OT3 (and OT4) fan, I've seen three guys OT3 for a long time now and pretty consistent and growing two guys and a woman OT3, esp. what with I Saw Three Ships and trends in SG-1, PoTC and such.

What I am noticing more is larger parts of my flist being vocal OT3 fans (which is probably a function of 1) getting a flist and 2) self-selection) and more long-term polyfic OT3s, I think, which I am all in favor of.

[executrix]

In Old Skool Blakes7 slash, there was a very popular (and lengthy) series called The Dome Series that's Blake/Avon/Vila (m/m/m).

[damned_colonial]

In Hornblower fandom, Horatio/Archie/Edrington and Horatio/Archie/Bush threesomes (all m/m/m) are, if not common, then not exactly rare either. I've written both.

[princessofgeeks]

wow; late to this party but fascinating!